Comments on: Is XML Appliance the Ultimate ESB? http://myarch.com/is-xml-appliance-an-ultimate-esb Builds and bytes Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:08:26 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: murali kosaraju http://myarch.com/is-xml-appliance-an-ultimate-esb/comment-page-1#comment-9151 murali kosaraju Thu, 31 May 2007 11:19:21 +0000 http://myarch.com/is-xml-appliance-an-ultimate-esb#comment-9151 I happen to blog recently about the features of IBM datapower at http://mkosaraju.wordpress.com Coming to your topic, YES, the roadmap of these appliances clearly shows that they are trying to support most of the ESB features to make it look more than an ESB gateway solution. As I mentioned in my blog, support for transaction co-ordination, state management, process synchronization etc are not there yet. There are very few blogs on these bleeding edge topics and I am glad I found yours :-) Cheers, Murali Kosaraju I happen to blog recently about the features of IBM datapower at http://mkosaraju.wordpress.com
Coming to your topic, YES, the roadmap of these appliances clearly shows that they are trying to support most of the ESB features to make it look more than an ESB gateway solution.

As I mentioned in my blog, support for transaction co-ordination, state management, process synchronization etc are not there yet.

There are very few blogs on these bleeding edge topics and I am glad I found yours :-)

Cheers,
Murali Kosaraju

]]> By: Is ESB Mediation Infrastructure of Web Services Platform? | MyArch http://myarch.com/is-xml-appliance-an-ultimate-esb/comment-page-1#comment-8858 Is ESB Mediation Infrastructure of Web Services Platform? | MyArch Tue, 29 May 2007 00:48:11 +0000 http://myarch.com/is-xml-appliance-an-ultimate-esb#comment-8858 [...] Lori MacVitte from F5 had a few comments about my post on using XML appliances in ESB capacity. While I don't completely agree with some of her specific points about what ESB capabilities are missing from XML appliances (for example, parallel processing is employed by most appliance vendors, transactionality is also supported for relevant protocols (although no XML appliance can act as an XA transaction coordinator)), the overall observation is correct – there is (and there always will be) a big difference between software-based ESBs and hardware-based XML appliances. [...] [...] Lori MacVitte from F5 had a few comments about my post on using XML appliances in ESB capacity. While I don’t completely agree with some of her specific points about what ESB capabilities are missing from XML appliances (for example, parallel processing is employed by most appliance vendors, transactionality is also supported for relevant protocols (although no XML appliance can act as an XA transaction coordinator)), the overall observation is correct – there is (and there always will be) a big difference between software-based ESBs and hardware-based XML appliances. [...]

]]> By: Alexander Ananiev http://myarch.com/is-xml-appliance-an-ultimate-esb/comment-page-1#comment-8718 Alexander Ananiev Thu, 24 May 2007 04:03:49 +0000 http://myarch.com/is-xml-appliance-an-ultimate-esb#comment-8718 Jon, 1) Most appliances can be configured to have multiple network cards, however, you still want to have your production appliance as a separate device. So at the very least you'll need two devices (a device can then be partitioned into multiple logical environments, say for development and testing). 2) There are quite a few different appliance vendors (DataPower, Layer7, reactivity, others). You can shop around. The cost is comparable to the cost of the software ESB products from leading vendors, these products are not cheap either. 3) You still need developers to put together mediations deployed to an appliance. The developers, however, could be more junior than in case of application servers since there are no prerequisites for in-depth knowledge of J2EE, .NET and OO. Jon,
1) Most appliances can be configured to have multiple network cards, however, you still want to have your production appliance as a separate device. So at the very least you’ll need two devices (a device can then be partitioned into multiple logical environments, say for development and testing).

2) There are quite a few different appliance vendors (DataPower, Layer7, reactivity, others). You can shop around. The cost is comparable to the cost of the software ESB products from leading vendors, these products are not cheap either.

3) You still need developers to put together mediations deployed to an appliance. The developers, however, could be more junior than in case of application servers since there are no prerequisites for in-depth knowledge of J2EE, .NET and OO.

]]> By: jon http://myarch.com/is-xml-appliance-an-ultimate-esb/comment-page-1#comment-8702 jon Wed, 23 May 2007 16:43:04 +0000 http://myarch.com/is-xml-appliance-an-ultimate-esb#comment-8702 Few questions: 1) How do the appliances work in environments where there are multiple networks? Say for instance, I have an intranet that I use for development and an internet connection on which I deploy my product to the outside world. Do I need two appliances? The reason I ask is that pitching management on purchasing these devices for multiple environments has been challenging on the projects which I have worked on. Usually they want to use a free alternative on development networks and testing networks (obviously not ideal). With application servers, it has been fairly straightforward to use say Geronimo on the development network, but Websphere on the production network. 2) Last I looked at these appliances, their cost was quite high. As such I only recommended them if the horsepower was required to get the job done. Does it make sense to use a software implementation when performance isn't a bottleneck? 3) You mention that they are fairly easy to support... My experience has been that it is not only difficult to find IT guys that will support application servers, but they usually end up needing the developers because they just don't have the background required to understand all the parameters. Have these appliances finally reached a stage where development skills aren't required? Few questions:

1) How do the appliances work in environments where there are multiple networks? Say for instance, I have an intranet that I use for development and an internet connection on which I deploy my product to the outside world. Do I need two appliances? The reason I ask is that pitching management on purchasing these devices for multiple environments has been challenging on the projects which I have worked on. Usually they want to use a free alternative on development networks and testing networks (obviously not ideal). With application servers, it has been fairly straightforward to use say Geronimo on the development network, but Websphere on the production network.

2) Last I looked at these appliances, their cost was quite high. As such I only recommended them if the horsepower was required to get the job done. Does it make sense to use a software implementation when performance isn’t a bottleneck?

3) You mention that they are fairly easy to support… My experience has been that it is not only difficult to find IT guys that will support application servers, but they usually end up needing the developers because they just don’t have the background required to understand all the parameters. Have these appliances finally reached a stage where development skills aren’t required?

]]> By: Gary E Smith http://myarch.com/is-xml-appliance-an-ultimate-esb/comment-page-1#comment-8700 Gary E Smith Wed, 23 May 2007 15:21:01 +0000 http://myarch.com/is-xml-appliance-an-ultimate-esb#comment-8700 I agree this is the next phase in the evolving SOA Platform as it becomes more distributed. In my opinion the XML appliance will likely be a subset of the ESB and be networked with an ESB to provide a distributed solution. You can check out a couple of my blogs where I discuss this trend. http://soanetworkarchitect.com/2007/02/08/the-evolving-soa-platform.aspx http://soanetworkarchitect.com/2006/12/16/esb-functionality-in-the-net--mark-richards.aspx Regards, Gary E. Smith SOA Network Architect SOA Networks I agree this is the next phase in the evolving SOA Platform as it becomes more distributed.

In my opinion the XML appliance will likely be a subset of the ESB and be networked with an ESB to provide a distributed solution. You can check out a couple of my blogs where I discuss this trend.

http://soanetworkarchitect.com/2007/02/08/the-evolving-soa-platform.aspx

http://soanetworkarchitect.com/2006/12/16/esb-functionality-in-the-net–mark-richards.aspx

Regards,
Gary E. Smith
SOA Network Architect
SOA Networks

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